SmartGrowth Meeting---Notes -- Wasatch Elementry School April 11, 2006
Judge David Roth opened the meeting, and briefly ran through the agenda-- three speakers and then time for public comment. He made it clear that he was not a member of SmartGrowth, and had no vested interest in how this meeting or the issues turned out and had been invited to moderate by SmartGrowth. Those who wished to comment publicly were asked to limit their remarks to two minutes and sign up on sign up sheets at the back. This proved to be a very good way to run things, as Judge Roth could then call on people in order of sign up, which he did five to ten at a time so as to enable them to line up and be ready. This eliminated the dead air one gets at meetings while waiting for people to make their way to the podium, and ensured that everyone who wished to be heard had that opportunity.
Sandra Crosland from SmartGrowth was the first speaker. She began by saying that we were all, in attending this meeting, taking the first step to a positive public process and then moved quickly on to the sad fact that, although we were taking part in a positive public process, there was an elephant in the living room. This elephant was Chris Peterson's development plans for the Basin and the proposed gondola.
It is our park at stake, Ms. Crosland said, and then went on to state that SmartGrowth was a community organization which believed that informed decisions lead to positive growth. Thus the SmartGrowth slogan, Ask Questions.
Because of her legal background, Ms. Crosland chose to approach the elephant in the living room from the standpoint of "reasonableness." Is it reasonable, she asked, that one involved in buying a home would want to know what it looked like? How much it would cost? Asking questions about the proposed development, far from being "naysaying" is simply what reasonable people would do and is an integral part of participating in the public process.
Ms. Crosland then discussed certain "spin techniques" of which we have all been the recipients lately, and read from a letter to the Standard Examiner which called those opposing the Peterson project "haters." She quoted, (and I hope I get this right, "If you don't know the law, attack the facts, if you don't know the facts, attack the law, and if you don't know either one, attack the people." She mentioned that it was a habit of the current administration to "float an idea" until that idea becomes a reality, and that despite these "glittering generalities" we have all heard concerning this project, it was by no means a fait accompli.
Ms. Crosland told the audience that, in looking back on what she had done, she herself was the most impressed with the accomplishments from her volunteer work, and then rattled off a list of volunteer credits which was truly impressive. They included: helping spearhead Ogden's Nature Center, designing the fairgrounds, serving on the boards of the School Foundation and the Ogden Regional Medical foundation, the victim/witness program,Weber County Pathways, and RAMP. Her very conservative estimate was that she had spent more than 10,000 hours volunteering to make Ogden a better place, and emphasized the fact that in all these projects, RAMP was the only one that involved public tax dollars, and the spending of those dollars by RAMP had been ratified by a public vote.
However, Ms. Crosland said, all these volunteer accomplishments by no means made her unique. On the contrary, those involved in SmartGrowth and attending the meeting were basically the same kind of people--people who had put in many hours building Ogden. Far from naysaying, this was a group of "neighbors asking why," (applause.) Ms. Crosland ended with a quote from a letter from Spence Havelick, a former mayor of Boulder who visited Ogden recently, to Mayor Godfrey, in which he stated that developing the Basin would be the "kiss of death" for Ogden.
Greg Montgomery spoke next. Mr. Montgomery is the Manager of the Planning Division of the Ogden City Department of Community and Economic Development. If the Mount Ogden neighborhood gets a neighborhood plan, Mr. Montgomery will be instrumental in making that happen. He stated his opinion that the general plan was "a skeleton," and that the neighborhood plans, one presumes, flesh it out. It was originally the elementary school boundaries that constituted the divisions between various neighborhoods.
He began with a brief history of planning in Ogden--the first study that was done was in 1983. The general plan finally came to completion in 2000-2001. The way the process in the neighborhood plans would work is that first the issues of the neighborhood were defined--the style, kinds of problems, sidewalks, lighting, things of that nature. Many discussions were held to collect this information, and after this, a steering committee was established to draft a plan. Once the plan was drafted, more neighborhood meetings were held to discuss the draft, and that is basically the public process.
Mr. Montgomery then zeroed in on the "elephant in the living room," (although he did not call it that,) and stated that his opinion was that the most successful neighborhood plans did not happen when the neighborhood was facing a controversial issue, as the Mount Ogden one is. Plans made during times of controversy oftentimes turn out to be based on that controversy, instead of upon the other issues of concern.
From here, he discussed the public process that would have to be undergone to have Chris Peterson's project go through with the projected land sale, and said that it was important to understand that there was indeed a process that involved the public.
First, before the land could be sold, the general plan would have to be amended, because selling this land is contrary to the goals of the general plan. Amending the general plan requires that public hearings be held.
Secondly, the park is not only a local park, but a regional park, and was at one time dedicated by the city council as a park. So that too would have to be changed.
Third, the land is zoned as open space, and therefore a zoning change would be required. (He threw in here that the land at WSU Peterson wishes to buy is already zoned residential, so no change would be required there.)
Fourth, Malan's Basin would have to be annexed into Ogden City, the plan has to be amended for that, and a public process is also included there.
Mr. Montgomery ended by saying that in his opinion, right and wrong land use is a matter of perspective. Two things are taken into consideration---Is the projected use safe, and what is its value. No one, Mr. Montgomery said, agrees on everything, but public hearings in this matter do have to occur.
Fred Aegerter was the final guest speaker. Mr. Aegerter was involved in the Jefferson neighborhood plan in Ogden, and later, was instrumental in the formulation of "Involve Ogden," Ogden's general plan. He began by stating that he, like Judge Roth, had no vested interest in the issue, and proceeded to talk about how Involve Ogden came about,.
It happened because, in 1997, the Ogden City Council had requested that the Ogden City Department of Community and Economic Development be audited. One of the results of the audit was that the department was told that it had to finish Ogden City's General Plan. A consultant was hired. The public process was undergone, with the steering committee comprised of a broad spectrum of Ogden residents. This committee was given the consultant's conclusions and then began holding public meetings.
Mr. Aegerter spoke in glowing terms about Ogden's "incredible spirit of volunteerism" in getting these things going. In February of 1999, a series of five meetings was held, and people volunteered for a huge public outreach effort to get people to these meetings to voice their concerns.
The facilitators of these meetings were local citizens, and because of their efforts, 500 ideas came back to the planners. (One of the recommendations, incidentally, was that the Ogden City Mall should be looked at very carefully before the decision should be made to knock it down.)
The planners took the comments and divided them into goals having to do with time--- immediate issues requiring immediate resolution, issues that should be resolved within eighteen months, short and long term, and then a catchall group comprised of issues that we should keep in the spotlight and work on continuously.
After this part of the process was complete, it was time for the Ogden City Council to approve the general plan, and here the process stalled. Council approval took ten months, mainly because, Mr. Aegerter said, the City Council wanted to be absolutely sure the goals in the plan could be implemented and that the promise represented by the plan could be realistically kept.
Mr. Aegerter ended by saying that the general plan is not a panacea for all challenges, and that it is not a silver bullet that will solve them. The importance of it is that it identified issues that were important, documented the peoples' concerns, is a learning tool for those interested in the city, and provides a direction regarding land use and where the spending of public money should be focussed. The plan, he said, should be updated roughly every three years. (Don't know if this updating is a mandate from somewhere or just a suggestion.)
Anyone, by the way, can read this plan on the Ogden City Website. The problem with it is that it has many divisions, and each division is a separate PDF. But for those interested, and willing to go through the downloading process, the link is here: Involve Ogden
SmartGrowth Ogden Meeting--Public Comment Notes
Speakers:
Deb Badger: Made mention of the fact that the development and the
gondola plans keep changing on us.
Bonnie Whallen: Would hate to lose the hills.
Tom ?: Parents were from Switzerland and loved the Ogden mountains. His (relative?) gave the city Mount Ogden park---thinks the city paid approximately $140,000 for it. This previous owner definitely did not want houses in that area. Remarked that the meeting had drawn a good crowd.
Grant Maw: "I oppose the gondola and anything related to it." (Applause.) Stated that Godfrey and Safsten "are not representing the city" and that they "don't care about our approval." People were voted out last time and more can be voted out next time. Do we all want large towers 200 yards apart up there?
Sandra Davies: Attended a board meeting where a presentation of the proposed development was made. The nature of the development is "cluster housing," and if we wish to see an example of this, there is one out by Kobe (formerly Dai Enko Tei.) These houses being build are huge luxury homes about 10 feet apart. This is called a "footprint," meaning that the house sits on the land with no land around it. The marketing for the Peterson project is to "wealthy, elite people for second homes." She has seen similar housing to this in Okinawa, and stated that "we do not want to be New York or LA."
Robert Cato: Has no water pressure where he lives, and has watched the water from Mount Ogden park cascade over the curb because the ground is saturated. Asked, "Why are we in such a hurry to make Ogden into California?" Mentioned the recent landslide in South Weber where a home was destroyed and a child injured. Is disturbed by the "lack of openness" concerning this project. Has acquired a DVD some people in Jackson Hole(?) made when developers came in and took over an area, and has possible plans to show this to the public in the future.
Dan Schroeder: Member of SmartGrowth and President of the Sierra Club. His question: If there really is a public process in place for decisions such as this land sale, why has the mayor appeared on a promotional DVD stating that the project is a go? Is it really a done deal?
Greg ?: Has seen the proposal. If these homes are built on our open space, access will be lost not only to that space but to the entire area. Referring to those who will buy the homes, he said, "We will be strangers to those people." Questioned the belief that Mount Ogden Golf Course is losing money. Stated that there is no reason to sell this land. (Huge applause.)
Jack Crosland: Stated that at one time, Mayor Godfrey has said that he wished Ogden to be "The Boulder of Utah." Went on to talk about Boulder, which "has maintained its unique beauty by open spaces." Boulder actually passed a raise in sales tax for the preservation and acquisition of open space, and the vote for this was 57% in favor. He ended with an offer that his family trust would donate sufficient funds to Weber County Pathways, to be used for the purpose of sending the entire Ogden City Council to Boulder, housing them, and taking them around so that they could see how beautiful a city could be when following Boulder's example.
Sivananda(?) Khalsa: Stated that in his opinion, this was not a good use of the word "vision," which should connote comforting, connected, spiritual experiences instead of this development. Question was: Who's going to build the road, what is the cost of it, and where's it going to be?
Joe Anderson: Lives in Ogden by choice. Believes it will make more sense to have a streetcar. Of the proposed development, "They will not allow you to walk through their gated community." Stated that the development would "destroy the heart of Ogden's trail system.
Jack Hartman: Advocated that the energy be changed from opposition to compromise. Does not like seeing so many of his friends move away.
Bob Geiger: Stated that most of the people in the room were old, and that it was the old people who were in opposition. He was young, and young people like him are in favor of this development. Stated that Chris Peterson does not intend to build a road up there and instead will accomplish the construction of the resort via a "materiel moving gondola." Mentioned that the meeting had been called in order to form an opposition to the development. There is no need to form a neighborhood plan right now, since one is in development.
Jim Craig: "Sign the petition, if you believe in it." Thinks the development would be a "huge mistake."
Russ Thorne: Was a schoolteacher for 30 years. Mentioned that on the drive up to the meeting, Mount Ogden Park was full of children playing. On weekends, it's used even more. Lives in Ogden because "we fell in love with the mountains." Stated that "Involve Ogden" has as one of its goals high paying jobs, and that a resort does not provide these. Where is Mayor Godfrey? Why is he not at this meeting? Stated that Mayor Godfrey has stated that Ogden City government is "a republic," and that Mayor Godfrey interprets this to mean that, havng been elected, he has free reign.
Jim Larkin: Family has been in Ogden 150 years. Is on the fence about these issues. Thanked SmartGrowth for giving people the opportunity to speak about them. Appreciates the Ogden trails committee. Stated that development is not necessarily a bad thing, but that the challenge was to make it "smart growth." Mentioned Boulder's "Blue Line" ordinance, which has been strictly enforced. This ordinance drew a blue line around the base of the mountains, and mandated that the city would pump no water above that blue line.
Rick Safsten: Stated that it was untrue to state that he supported the proposed development. The Ogden City Council had published a statement in the Standard Examiner as to its position, which was one of neutrality until it received a proposal. It has still received no proposal, and he therefore still holds a neutral position. "Remember, this is an extremely complex process." Ended by stating that, "Ogden has got to expand its tax base."
Harley Shupe: Asks that, although the Council has received no proposal, has Mayor Godfrey received a proposal? "His son in law has learned well from him," referring to the relationship between Chris Peterson and Earl Holding, owner of Snowbasin and Sinclair Oil. "I caution this city" against selling this land.
Spence? Robinson: "Education is everything." This development will not benefit all of Ogden. "The rest of us will be left out in the cold." In reference to Mayor Godfrey's concept of Ogden being a Republic, "I teach Civics--I don't think so."
Tom(?) ?: Stated he was indifferent on the topic. Mentioned that the homes in Ogden above Fillmore were at one time a new development. Would not like it however, "if they took away the trails." Stated that the objective of the housing development/resort was not to create high-paying jobs, but to bring them in.
? Cunningham: Archeologist by profession. Is not in favor of this development. Ogden does need development, however, and is in favor of "thoughtful planning of our community."
? Rowan?: Was on the trails and encountered Chris Peterson, who was accompanied by the owner of Fenda(?) gondola. Had a discussion during which Peterson told her that the resort would not be west facing, but north facing, and said she was "irresponsible" for disagreeing with his project.
At this point, Judge Roth closed the public comment and Sandra Crosland thanked everyone for coming. (Sound system problems.) "We do not need an emergency approach." In reference to Mr. Montgomery's opinion that neighborhood plans should not take place when a neighborhood is embroiled in controversy, he had also stated that in the space of controversy, solutions happened. She ended by thanking everyone again for attending, and stated that it was vital that everyone remain involved in the public process.
She then announced the following events:
Thursday, April 13th, 5 PM
An Ogden City Council work session which will be held in Council
Chambers so that the public can attend. Mayor Godfrey will give a
presentation on the proposed development, land sale, etc.
April 19th - Mr. Peterson will be on campus April 19 in the Shepherd Union Ballroom C to explain his development proposal. In addition to an open house from noon to 6 p.m., WSU audiences will have three opportunities to hear Mr. Peterson’s formal presentation at 1 p.m., 3 p.m. and 5 p.m.
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Luminaries Present at this SmartGrowth meeting Tuesday, April 11th, were:
State Representative Neil Hansen
Dorrene Jeske, Jesse Garcia, Bill Glasmann, Amy Wicks, Rick Safsten (from the Ogden City Council)
Bill Cook, Executive Director of the Ogden City Council
Kent Jorgensen, formerly Ogden City Council